Doug Mason

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Posts by Doug Mason

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  5

  The Origin of Life

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in its brochure, “the origin of life”, the wts poses: “how did life begin?” (page 4).

  it states: “the answer to the question, where do babies come from?

  is well-documented and uncontroversial.

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  Doug Mason

  peacefulpete,

  Thank you.

  Doug
• 
  31

  The Church Father's "70 years"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

  less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

  for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

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  Doug Mason

  Hi Scholar,

  No one disagrees that they were captives for 70 years, that Babylon ruled for that period. Some -- and their descendants - were held for that period while others were subjected to Babylon while they remained in their respective lands.

  And they were not termed as "Jews" that early in their history.

  Others are able to agree with me that these statements referred to by the Watchtower Society do not say what the Society claims they were saying.

  Were you able to locate the complete statement by Eusebius? I provided the URL.

  Doug
• 
  5

  The Origin of Life

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in its brochure, “the origin of life”, the wts poses: “how did life begin?” (page 4).

  it states: “the answer to the question, where do babies come from?

  is well-documented and uncontroversial.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  In its brochure, “The Origin of Life”, the WTS poses: “How Did Life Begin?” (page 4)

  It states: “The answer to the question, Where do babies come from? is well-documented and uncontroversial. Life always comes from preexisting life.” (“The Origin of Life”, page 5)

  ======

  So my questions are:

  (1) Does the WTS explain what is meant by “life” or when it begins?

  (2) Does it believe that spermatozoa (human or otherwise) are alive?

  (3) Does it believe that an ovum is alive? (Is an unfertilised chicken’s egg alive?)

  ======

  I would also like to comment that the WTS does not differentiate between the “origin of life” and “evolution”, but there is a difference between the moment of conception and the subsequent development (“evolution”) resulting from a successful union.

  Doug
• 
  31

  The Church Father's "70 years"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

  less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

  for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Doug Mason

  Scholar,

  The statements by the Church Fathers on "70 years" in no way agree with the Watchtower's position.

  Doug
• 
  26

  NOAH and his impossible struggle to refute Math Physics & Earth Science

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alice laughed: "there's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things.".

  "i daresay you haven't had much practice," said the queen.

  "when i was younger, i always did it for half an hour a day.

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  Doug Mason

  And just for good measure, the Flood Story in Genesis is an amalgam of two separate accounts:

  https://jwstudies.com/Two_Flood_Stories.pdf

  Doug
• 
  31

  The Church Father's "70 years"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

  less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

  for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Doug Mason

  Thank you, Half banana,

  You raise an issue I have not, and that is the dates of the writings, such as Daniel. It was written in 164 BCE to and for those people at that time.

  The Book of Daniel was a product of the apocalyptic eschatology that arose during the Second Temple Period with writings such as Enoch, Jubilees, and so on, as well as the rise of the Dead Sea community. Most Christian beliefs come from this period, rather than from the Hebrew Scriptures (OT), such as Satan and a war in heaven,

  Another interest is the date and purpose of Chronicles. That was composed in the 4th century because the writers did not agree with or accept the religious political views of Kings. That record, in turn was composed as part of the Deuteronomistic History.

  Another matter is how the ancients thought about the meaning of numbers such as 70. The term is gematria.

  Also, how they thought about recording history. They were not journalists. They recorded past events to give meaning to their present.

  Finally, their texts experienced fluidity as it was being rewritten on fresh scrolls. No one knows what was originally written.

  Doug
• 
  31

  The Church Father's "70 years"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

  less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

  for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  I want to acknowledge the stimulus I received from a certain person who provided me with these quotations and then asked me for my comments.

  We agreed that the information should be shared here.

  Doug
• 
  31

  The Church Father's "70 years"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

  less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

  for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  My intention in posting these quotations is to show that the Church Fathers cited by the WTS's letter do not support the WTS's position on the "70 years" in any way.

  I confirmed this by also citing Eusebius.

  Doug
• 
  31

  The Church Father's "70 years"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

  less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

  for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  EUSEBIUS

  http://rbedrosian.com/euseb8.htm

  After this, during [the next] 70 years, the Babylonian captivity of the Jews occurred and the destruction of the [temple's] site. According to the Bible, this ended in the second year of King Darius of Persia, which was during the 65th Olympiad [B.C. 520, 519, 518, 517]. …

  The captivity lasted for seventy years, and ended in the second year of Darius Hystaspes, who had become king of the Persians, Assyrians, and Egyptians. …

  There was a period of 70 years from the destruction of the temple until the second year of Darius. …

  At this point one might inquire: Why does it state in the beginning of the book of Ezra [1.1]? …

  Furthermore, subsequent [passages] indicate that freedom [was given] to the Jews [at that point] and that it was Cyrus who ordered that the temple be rebuilt. From this one would assume that it was during the time of Cyrus, rather than Darius, that the 70 years of captivity came to an end.

  To this I reply that the prophecies refer to two [distinct] 70-year periods.

  The first began with the destruction of the temple and ended, as Zechariah stated, in the second year of Darius.

  The second extends from the enslavement of the Jews to the capture of Babylon and the destruction of the Chaldean kingdom. This began in the time of the prophecy and ended with Cyrus, as Jeremiah recorded.

  [Jeremiah] further predicted [Jeremiah 29.10]. … All this came to a head during the time of Cyrus.

  The period of the enslavement [of the Jews] should not be reckoned from the [time of the] destruction of the temple, but earlier—from the second year of [the reign of] Jehoiakim, king of the Jews, when Nebuchadnezzar the king of the Babylonians enslaved them. [It could be reckoned] even earlier, from the time when the prophet Jeremiah first began to prophesy. From that time until the siege [of Jerusalem] and the burning of the temple 40 years elapsed, and 70 years until the first year of Cyrus.

  From the start of Jeremiah's prophesying until Cyrus' reign, the first 70 years [period] elapsed.

  However, from the destruction of the temple until Cyrus, 30 years elapsed, while it was in the second year of Darius that [the other] 70 years was completed. [The temple] was restored in the eighth year of Darius.
• 
  31

  The Church Father's "70 years"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in their letter to lobsto regarding the neo-babylonian chronology, the wts wrote the following regarding the early church fathers:.

  less than 200 years after josephus, several early church writers clearly accepted that the length of the desolation or exile was 70 years, and no one gives any other length for this event.

  for instance, tatian the assyrian (110 to 172 c.e.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  JULIUS AFRICANUS

  “The most famous exile that befell the Hebrews, then—to wit, when they were led captive by Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon—lasted 70 years, as Jeremias had prophesied. Berosus the Babylonian, moreover, makes mention of Nabuchodonosor. And after the 70 years of captivity, Cyrus became king of the Persians at the time of the 55th Olympiad, as may be ascertained from the Bibliothecæ of Diodorus and the histories of Thallus and Castor, and also from Polybius and Phlegon, and others besides these, who have made the Olympiads a subject of study. For the date is a matter of agreement among them all. And Cyrus then, in the first year of his reign, which was the first year of the 55th Olympiad, effected the first partial restoration of the people by the hand of Zorobabel, with whom also was Jesus the son of Josedec, since the period of 70 years was now fulfilled, as is narrated in Esdra the Hebrew historian. The narratives of the beginning of the sovereignty of Cyrus and the end of the captivity accordingly coincide. (Extant Fragments of the Five Books of the Chronography of Julius Africanus, chapter 13, 2.)

  ======

  It was 70 years of “captivity”. The captivity to Babylon ended as soon as Babylon had been defeated and Cyrus became king.

  One could check whether a Tishri calendar or a Nisan calendar is intended and whether an accession-year system or a non-accession-year system was in mind. It should be possible to calculate the BCE date equivalent of Olympiad 55, year. The accepted starting point is 776 BCE for Olympiad 1, year 1.